The Impact of Divorce on Children and Navigating New Family Dynamics EP4 (Part 2)

Divorce can be a challenging and emotional experience, impacting not only the couple involved but also their children. We have Danielle and Karina back today, in this part 2 of life after divorce. We are talking about the different approaches to co-parenting, supporting children through the changes, and the impact of their decisions on their kids. This conversation dives into the key themes discussed, shedding light on the complexities of divorce, the importance of healthy relationships, and the significance of emotional intelligence for children.

Raising children after divorce comes with challenges and rewards. Moving away from the children's father when they are young can result in them having no memory of their parents being in a relationship. It's evident that children absorb and respond to the emotional atmosphere in their environment, and in some cases, children may seem relieved after a separation. This shows the importance of acknowledging and addressing the impact of divorce on children, as their emotional well-being is deeply intertwined with the changes in family dynamics.

The value of open and direct communication with children about their experiences and life changes is crucial. Being transparent with kids about dating lives, relationship dynamics, and family structure allows them to feel included and informed, promoting a sense of security and trust in their relationships. Navigating divorce with open communication fosters solid emotional connections and helps children understand and adapt to the changes in their family life.

Approaching the situation with calmness and stability ensures that children are shielded from the conflicts accompanying divorce. Prioritizing healthy co-parenting to support the well-being of children is essential. Demonstrating that putting the children's needs first and creating a supportive co-parenting dynamic can mitigate the negative impact of divorce on children highlights the significance of fostering healthy relationships, even in the aftermath of a relationship's end.

Emotional intelligence in children is significant. By being authentic with kids and teaching them to navigate emotional experiences, parents lay the foundation for their children to develop the necessary skills to manage relationships and adversity. Recognizing the emotional complexities of divorce and addressing them with honesty and empathy is vital in guiding children through the changes and challenges they face.

Human connection, empowering individuals to make choices that prioritize their well-being, and supporting each other through life's transitions are crucial. Sharing experiences and supporting each other exemplifies the empowering nature of choosing relationships and the freedom of not needing them. This promotes a message of resilience and growth, inspiring others to prioritize their well-being and make empowered decisions in the face of changes.

Navigating a divorce is a complex journey, filled with emotional challenges and a profound impact on the family dynamic. The importance of healthy co-parenting, open communication, and emotional intelligence in supporting children through divorce is evident. 

Prioritizing children's well-being and fostering healthy relationships, the negative impact of divorce can be mitigated, and children can be guided through these changes with empathy and strength.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

Welcome back to Unscripted. In this episode, we continue our powerful conversation with Danielle and Karina, two inspiring single moms navigating life after divorce. They share their experiences in this new chapter of their lives how their kids have adjusted, the new bonds they have formed, and how to face the challenges of disapproval with strength and grace. You don't want to miss it. Welcome to Unscripted, your guide to discovering the various options available to you in the integrated and collaborative medicine space. I'm Janine Barandi and I've been treating patients with acupuncture for 10 years and I'm Jenny Poole.

Speaker 2: 0:42

I'm a trauma specialist and somatic therapist with a passion for psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy. The objective of our podcast is to explore the various care options available. Through our years of practice, we've found that different modalities can complement each other and conventional medicine.

Speaker 1: 0:57

We hope our conversations resonate and help you find the right tools and specialists for your unique needs.

Speaker 2: 1:04

We believe in an advanced care model where the doctor is not the only expert. We encourage you to embrace a mindset where your practitioners are your teammates, who ultimately empower you to take control of your health as with every episode.

Speaker 1: 1:15

This is not intended to act as medical advice and no patient practitioner relationship is formed from subscribing or tuning in. How's it been?

Speaker 3: 1:24

with your kids, because I know how it was with my kids. Mine were like I told you, there's six going on seven, eight going on nine. So how did you guys talk about it with them? Well, danielle and I have drastically different sort of dynamics and experiences with that, as I never married my son's father. In fact, I moved across the country away from my son's father as early as like four months. My youngest was four months old and my oldest was just about three, so they don't have memories or memories of me ever being in a relationship with their dad.

Speaker 3: 2:03

Yeah, it's always been just us. My ex-husband was their stepdad and they actually seemed very relieved. It was almost like a coming back to each other after the separation. We without his energy and his, we had the spaciousness to be ourselves and be the trio that we always were. My youngest son, who's 11, now still sleeps with me and he couldn't do that while I was married.

Speaker 3: 2:38

And although my ex-husband was a great guy, he was decent, he just kind of played it very kind of flat noted with the boys. He wasn't like the best stepdad, he didn't really. That's a good kind of. That's a good place to diverse, because some stepmats like couldn't be more. Feel like mine, more my own.

Speaker 3: 2:58

And some are like not biological children's song part, yeah, which is a whole spectrum, I know, yeah, yeah, and our spectrum was just somewhere in the middle. I mean, I think they were just like cool dude, roommates, just like hey, dude, hey you know. And so I just think, with his energy gone, it was like a coming home. And it's been almost two years since our separation and till this day my kids will bring him up in sort of curiosity, like remember when or why did you choose him? Why did you break up with him? Or, you know, why did he ever do that? What did you see in him? Um, imagine, if it's so like it still moves through their, their life, yeah for sure. Do you feel like you have to temper that with age-appropriate responses?

Speaker 3: 3:47

no I feel like you'd be pretty transparent. I'm pretty transparent with my boys, yeah, and I've always which can still be age-appropriate. I just mean I know sometimes what I would share with, like what I shared with my nine-year-old, for example. Of course it's different than what I shared with my seven-year-old. Yeah, you know, yeah, and I find myself sometimes getting a little bit frustrated and it's just with me and I really do check through.

Speaker 3: 4:08

I check in with myself and because they don't often understand especially as I'm starting to date, I'm not fully transparent about that, but sometimes they'll get little peeks here and there and they'll ask questions and they don't often understand my sort of fluidity in it. Right, I'm I'm not a very well, I don't know what, would you call it A very typical kind of conservative, I don't know kind of a woman. So I don't know. I often have to like, really check in and make sure I'm using the right words and I'm being as understandable as possible. It's like, hey, he's my friend. How is he your friend if you're dating him? He's a special kind of man.

Speaker 3: 4:49

Yeah, just trying to navigate me, taking a unique approach on my single womanhood and explaining that to two boys becoming men watching you now. It's really challenging sometimes and your kids are how old again? 14, just about 14, and 11, yeah, and so it's been really interesting and also really adorable, as they've seen me through my grief and they've seen me come out of it and start dating and be happy, and they empower me and they tell me things like you deserve so much better. They often will imagine the ideal man for me and, yeah, they, they show up for me in ways that I know there's this message behind it of like we've got imam, but they're not alone, and those two particular people contact. They do. It's starting to develop and grow, but for the majority of their young's life, yeah, their first years they did not, and so, yeah, I've been solo parenting them since, like the beginning all the heavy, yeah, heavy lifting, yeah.

Speaker 3: 6:03

And then bringing in my now ex-husband was definitely very challenging and he sure tried and I have to give him credit. But, yeah, to bring that full circle, my kids have handled it well and they've been on my side and I think we're in a phase of rejoicing the spaciousness that I've created for us to get back to each other with this sort of like I don't know, excitement about life and where it's going and, yeah, what's to come. Yeah, I didn't. I think that that comes with me always just being like we're going to be okay, like we've got each other. You know, like me, separating was never traumatic for them in the way that they worried about their home or their lifestyle or their love, like mama always had that, so it wasn't like a big startling thing.

Speaker 3: 6:54

Hell, yeah, yeah, good on you, that's really honest. Yeah, how would you? How are your kiddos?

Speaker 4: 7:02

I mean, we have a little one, so, yes, not like it's a three-year-old, they're all so my oldest is almost 12 and then I have a nine-year-old and then three-year-olds and they're all at completely different life stages and they need like different type of parenting and we're all just super in it. Right now. My older two have a better understanding. I feel like myself and my husband, my ex I don't know what to call him because we're still kind of in between. We're both like calm and stable and able to like explain to them. We just basically approached it as, like relationships change and right now our relationship is changing and it's not a reflection of you guys or we're still a family, but that dynamic is going to change.

Speaker 4: 7:47

That's how we've tried to approach it, because we're still very much involved in like day-to-day life. So he moved out of our house, but he's living it's like a two minute drive away, and so we've just been, we're just navigating that and that that part's been really tricky. My older two have a better mental understanding of what's going on there. They've like expressed their emotions about it in different ways. Um, my youngest, my three-year-old, he's, he just doesn't, he doesn't understand like. He's like why can't dad sleep at our house? Why he?

Speaker 3: 8:19

he just has this confusion around it because for it's all he's known, and so that parts in emotional age wise, do you find that you have to temper like because I again I remember what I would say to my, you know, my six-year-old mom on set, I had my eight-year-old mom on nine I like wouldn't say the same things as I, because they've asked me a question later. I'm like, hey, as you get older and better, so I can better more, give you a better scope of kind of what some of the dynamics were. Yeah, but at the time it just was like, hey, we love you and relationships change. Do you feel like you have to you're tempering kind of what you say, or do you like you can just be pretty direct?

Speaker 4: 8:58

I feel pretty open and pretty direct with my kids, obviously in like an age appropriate way, but I don't want to ever tell them something that's not true, or even a half truth, like I just change yeah, I just try.

Speaker 4: 9:09

I. We really just stuck with like our relationship is changing. I kept it pretty simple because I don't think, because we're so early in it, I don't think they need, I don't think they want to know depths. I think they'll have those questions eventually as they like, start to process, start to think about it. I think they'll have those questions eventually as they like, start to process, start to think about it. I think those questions will come up.

Speaker 4: 9:26

Right now it's just been the basics of like just kind of step by step, of like this is what we're doing. Dad's going to live somewhere different and this is when you're going to dad's house and when you're staying here. And then we've also kept an openness. We have some e-bikes that they can ride, like from our house to his house. So just giving my older two at least permission that you have access, yeah to me, or yeah, and I think that's really important too. Obviously we have to have structure, but and I would take them if they wanted to go to his house anytime but for them to feel like they can freely go from place to place, I think is a really big deal when it can work out that way, yeah yeah and that was a priority for both of us and just figuring where he could live, that was so close I think the hardest, like emotionally.

Speaker 4: 10:10

I think it's been the hardest on my three-year-old, which makes sense because he he doesn't have words to like express what he's feeling, so for him it's come out in like tantrums or just being a little bit more difficult or scratchy or he just he doesn't know how to say. My life is changing, the two most important people in my life, yeah, and that's been tricky for him. I mean, he's pretty verbal for a three-year-old, so he can say things, but I think just him processing and understanding that and just trying to be consistent of how we respond, just those big feelings of this little body.

Speaker 3: 10:44

Yeah, Like I don't know how to deal with what feelings comes out of that behavior and those huge expressions. Does it ever make you feel like oof? Was this the right thing to do?

Speaker 4: 10:53

Yes, I feel like that's pretty normal to be, like I'm making this huge decision that I know in my heart is right for me, but of course I'm like would it have just been easier to not make this decision? Because look at how much pain it's causing my children and I think that's what prevented me from making that decision for so long is the worry of how this huge change is going to affect it's not just my decision. That affects me, but it affects my entire family and so, absolutely in those moments, it's like wow, this is really entire family. And so, absolutely Like when, in those moments, it's like, wow, this is really freaking hard. And like what am I doing?

Speaker 3: 11:29

Like questions like that, Of course, like I feel that the flip side of that, though, is I mean I guess I can say this from being in my own relationship not that, not that I've had children that would be affected by it, but at the end of the day if I am not peaceful and I am not thriving, then I'm not taking care of myself and, as a mother, if you're not taking care of yourself and you're not putting yourself into the place where you feel whole and happy, children are gonna you're.

Speaker 3: 12:06

They're gonna figure that out on their own. They're gonna pick it up yeah, they will, and mothers will. Of all the people that they sacrifice typically the most for for their own, it will be their children, like I will I will stay in misery if it means that you fear so again.

Speaker 3: 12:23

That's why I think it's such a great choice. But they're not necessarily happy, and what's interesting about that? They feel it, yeah, and I think what you do as a mother is ultimately create these complexes for your children, because there is no dishonest, oh, there is no honesty and no authenticity, and you know, you're just kind of in this disillusioned state about a lot of things.

Speaker 3: 12:45

I remember when my parents were going through that whole phase and I would pull them aside separately and be like you guys can get a divorce, and we're like, where did you hear that word? And it was just so palpable to me, absolutely. And I would wake up in the middle of the night and go into their room and see if they were still in the same bed together. So your children, I mean. I can speak to this part because I'm the child of a divorced you know of divorced parents that there was so much angst and when my dad left it was like for me in that moment it was like cool, we get to play now.

Speaker 3: 13:31

And that wasn't necessarily the rest of the emotion from the other people in the family, and so I was like, oh, maybe I'll dial it down, but there was a sense in me like I'm so glad that there's not going to be this dynamic anymore. It was full of conflict. Oh my god, it was eggshells All the time. It makes me think about my own mother, who she lived in survival mode her, she still does, yeah and she came from extreme poverty in puerto rico. You know, they made it to the united states with very little and had to do simile and all of this throughout her whole marriage.

Speaker 3: 14:15

My father lived many, many other lives and they were married for 20 years and I mean my dad was sloppy with it. You know all that he did it's. It's really quite fascinating. It was very pervasive. It was so obvious and she didn't know him until year 20 when all of it started to come out. And you wonder how much she just ignored. You know how much she just suppressed and turned a blind eye and just kind of kept on the survival track of what is expected of her to take in and do for her family and be a woman.

Speaker 3: 14:58

So you look at, the body keeps score. As a kid, see, I remember this. Do you remember feeling like so the cost of that still would have shown up in her emotional body, even though she wasn't consciously aware, because attached problems go that way? Did you sometimes see your mom battle depression or anxiety or that dissociated kind of flat state? Sinker, okay. Lots of love Sinker, yeah. And did you guys pay the price of that sometimes? Yeah, and we still do. Ten years after her divorce, we still do. She's evolving quite beautifully these last few years.

Speaker 3: 15:32

I'm really proud of her and yeah, anyway, that's a whole other podcast.

Speaker 1: 15:37

Sure.

Speaker 3: 15:39

Mother-daughter relationship. Oh my god, let's put it on the calendar now, yeah, anyway, just to bring that full circle, I wonder if my mama had any choices for herself and her well-being and her self-care, how different all would have looked. She ignored those feminine parts and just kept on feminine parts, yeah, and just kept on this survival track and suppressed it all. And I and I, as the adult daughter looking back, I wish that my mother had chosen herself more and made those sort of risky and brave decisions.

Speaker 4: 16:18

Yeah, something powerful. Kareena's been a huge part of, like my journey as I go through this. But something I just remember really clearly, like saying to you is that just that maybe it's easier if I stay, or easier if I don't make that decision? And you just were like, um, just like, is it easier? Like like it feels like it in a lot of ways, but is it actually easier to like not follow my heart or follow what I know is right for me, because I think in from like a societal standpoint or just there are a lot of ways it's easier, but ultimately I I don't think it's the easier decision, even though it can feel that way.

Speaker 3: 17:01

Yeah, and the beautiful piece of that is human connection. Right, it's resourcing a friend and sometimes it says I see you, I love you, and so this is coming from a place of love, like, whatever choice you make, I'll honor and love you for. Or it's easier, all that's wrapped up in the way that she showed you support and women need that instead of competition and knock off your crown and mess your face. But I'm gonna be really awful behind and I think when women can really support each other and be there for each other, it really helps through some of the toughest times because, again, that community, that resourcing going I'm, I don't want to feel so alone in this landscape because it's hard, yeah, it's a hard decision.

Speaker 3: 17:46

I think we've been up for each other a lot yeah you guys can see it in the emotion that's up into your eyes, the way that you have felt to each other, and that's what I think is when we're being wired for connection. That is so important is that in our most challenging times, we have people that we can lean on, that love us and let's say they got you. Yeah, you need I'll have to fix it for you, but you need a voice of support and love and and to care for you. There are times, so many times, where I mean I've watched my friends do it is they're kind of staying in relationships that don't serve them. I could sit down and be like, hey, you know it's good for you and I've said it, but also like, if you still choose it, I love you yeah, like how can I help you?

Speaker 3: 18:27

right. Sometimes the message is here how can I help? I can't do. You know a lot, yeah, yeah, yeah too. I do remember when my kids were asking if we were getting divorced and I was completely irritated about it because my ex-husband and I had talked about really being thoughtful about how we talked to them about it. But he had, obviously, and as we resourced our friends, he had resourced some of what were our friends and their dad was son, was best friends with my oldest and out of nowhere he's like are you guys getting divorced? I was like why are you asking that? He's like well, because so and so told me that you guys are getting divorced and I was like why are you asking that? He's?

Speaker 4: 19:02

like.

Speaker 3: 19:02

Well, because so-and-so told me that you guys are getting divorced and I was like cool, I'm really irritated right now. I even told him that. I was like this is not the way that dad and I would want to tell you. I'm not gonna lie to you like yeah, and I tears. And I was like I remember calling my friend and her husband at the time. I was like sure wasn't the way I wanted to introduce stuff to my son. It was like if you and it's not, and to me it wasn't on the kid, because he's he was a nine year old too like you can say don't say anything, but he did. And so to me that was on the parents and I was like you say no, that was not well done and that we didn't let us tell our sons that.

Speaker 3: 19:41

And I'm frustrated and I think it's important to be able to say those kind of things, to have boundaries with what you want to talk to your kids or what you want to give that information. And I had this in down later with their dad. I'd be like guys, you know, we love you. Our relationship's changing, we want to be hard on you and this is what I would say to people. Listening to this is one relationship is changing and we want to be hard on you and this is what I would say to people listening to. This is one of the things that's really powerful for kids is you get to have a relationship with me and dad, independent, and help me and dad feel like a lot of children. Hopefully, me and dad are able to maintain harmony and good co-parenting dynamics here.

Speaker 3: 20:14

The sophistication of that language is going to change, but they're eight right when you said to a four-year-old I just said I just want to make sure you guys know that you're allowed to have whatever relationship you want to have with this little parent, again separate from abuse and super toxic situations. Regardless of how we end up doing with our children, you don't have to be in the middle, because too many times kids are in the middle of that and weaponized against each parent and it's horrible for the kid. It's it's horrible and it's hard on it's stressed up and nervous systems and that's one of the cases I remember talking to my ex-husband about. I remember sitting in the car because I just got done with work we had met up. It's like, okay, this is happening. He's like, yeah, I think so, I think we're there and I all right, we've both been in like therapeutic environments and I said we've seen parents do this before.

Speaker 3: 21:06

We've seen them weaponize their kids against each other. He said promise me, no matter who you bring into your life, and I'll promise you this, that we never put our kids in the middle of having to choose between us, because, first and foremost, those kids need to to have relationships with us in the 10-hour hours throughout each other. He was a father of our world and I'm like well, if you do, please promise me right now that we will always let our kids have healthy relationships with each other, with us, and that's something we've stuck to and we've not been married for eight years. So it's huge. I love that so much and I also loved the question that kind of started this whole recent conversation on like how do you talk to your kids about this Right? Is it age appropriate? And I think really it changes all the time, like there really is no like finite answer for it, and I remember once upon a time just being very simple and very clean, and now, as they're getting older and I'm sort of over my grief, I can be a little bit more transparent and what I've realized is that in that transparency my sons are learning so much about the human experience.

Speaker 3: 22:24

I'm human, I'm human, I'm, I'm struggling, I feel, I feel this, I feel that and I'm gonna have hard days I need to do some self-care. I'm gonna actually take a bath, so I'll check in in an hour, or you know, like I tell my boys I'm on my moon and they just, you know, it's like this, just I love it. You've educated your boys. It's gonna matter absolutely, and so I don't know, I feel like I'm just not interested in the veneer and being the strong, you know, mom, and I'm more like I'm struggling, I'm grieving and being able to just talk about children, about what grief is.

Speaker 3: 23:05

I didn't have that word in my vocabulary, you know, until I was a child and so, yeah, I don't know. I just I love where I'm at now with my children, where I can be more open about my process, my emotional states and and and, and I can now connect it to like my femininity, like where I am in my cycle and how you know that comes through and comes up, and I and then I'm okay, I'm gonna do my job to like my femininity, like where I am in my cycle and how you know that comes through and comes up and I and then I'm okay, I'm going to do my job to like transmute it and release it, and so and I think there's like an educational piece to that too, to show them that we're not perfect. I think it's so important for kids to see our humanity.

Speaker 3: 23:43

Yeah that is the arc of our emotional experience without burdening them with our emotions, of saying I'm human too and this is I might get. Too many times I've told my teenage son I'm like, hey, what did I do today? That that like tell me what I did. That thinks that you can talk to me like that, that's right, I'm going to disrespect you. Like tell me what I did to be treated this way, because I don't think I deserve something. I do you better, let me know. And he's like, oh, I'm just having a bad day, like cool, don't disrespect me because you're having a bad day. Yeah, but reminding him like you get to have your emotions, but I do too. I don't have to be a battering ram or a lightning post for you just because I'm your mom, yeah, like I love you, but you get to experience my emotions too.

Speaker 3: 24:27

Yeah, and you showing up authentically that way teaches emotional intelligence. Yes, emotional intelligence. I can't tell you how important that is. I worked in a young adult program for a while and the lack of emotional intelligence is 18 to 25 year olds and the way and having to cultivate it. It's like it's to me if you're going to have raw intelligence, you're going to be smart. I think emotional intelligence is just as important, if not sometimes more important, because it's how you traverse the world in connections and relationships.

Speaker 3: 24:54

If you don't have emotional intelligence, I can't tell you the times you've had the most questions going on. Oh, it's not, and it's so unattractive. Yeah, I'm like it's not. You can learn something different. It's learn something different. It's not just how you are. Nobody has to put up for a lack of emotional intelligence when there's a thousand free youtube videos. Watch the emotional death. So, yeah, do you want to do it or not? Like, and I'm not even going to pay for a therapist to do that like, go watch best old banner. Or go watch the emotions guy that wrote I have the emotions code and there's the ideal emotion book that's written with david balance. There's so many free resources out there. When someone's like, let's just sign on, like that's a cop out right, and you're not willing to go watch a couple of 10 to 20 minute videos to help start growing your emotional intelligence, then that's a big, huge issue. Yeah, and then when you wonder why your relationships are flourishing, you know, double you back to what are you doing to work or not work on yourself.

Speaker 3: 25:48

When I taught in the management class, I did it for five years. I can't tell you how many times it's not just about anger and anger being a secondary emotion. It was y'all need better emotional regulation skills, like so how do we start teaching those? And so sometimes it was amazing to them how sometimes literally, I talk about the word anger and emotional intelligence. And so when you foster that in children, right, they are so much more prepared and you also teach them accountability.

Speaker 3: 26:13

Yeah, and, by the way, how to navigate relationships so that either they don't stay in ones that aren't healthy for them or that, if they stay in them, they know how to have a capacity to work through hard times, because there is a growing I don't say it's just a generation, but there's a growing trend and this is too hard, I'm out. I'm like, listen, it is not helpful for you to try to get out, but can't tell you times I'd be like we've tried very hard, we're trying to exit this. So let's just maybe try a couple things. And I'm still right because, again, I think it's a great choice to live something that doesn't help, but sometimes that like this kind of got hard and I don't want to do anything more. I'm like whoa, this relationships are hard period, so if you're not ready to do some work in them to also cultivate joy, then we gotta grow your resilience and being able to have a relationship, and that includes a thousand percent having emotional intelligence.

Speaker 3: 27:03

Yeah, so teaching our kids that was huge. That's all said, yes. Well, is there anything, ladies, before we close, that you can?

Speaker 1: 27:11

ask about your experience.

Speaker 3: 27:13

If you follow us through the listeners that we have like, would you, if you had to say something to them about this experience you've had, what would?

Speaker 4: 27:21

it be, I think there's just like so much duality in it that it is really hard. And then there's been moments that I'm just like excited, relieved, like I just think it's such an emotional, like such a range of emotions in the experience and I I'm just like riding the wave.

Speaker 3: 27:40

So I don't know if I I don't have like but maybe that's it right, yeah, yeah, like be ready to ride the wave. Yeah, you're not wrong, it's not linear. Yeah, I know right. Yeah, it's expect, and even if I could have projected and thought about all the experiences I thought I would have had, it was harder, yeah, I still would have done it.

Speaker 3: 28:00

But I do tell this to my couples that I counsel they're like because people tell you the grass is up right on the other side. I'm like it's not, and divorce is hard, but sometimes it's the best thing for you. So try everything you can, but it's, you know, don't, don't kid yourself, but it's. It's tough, like it's. There's a difficult piece of. There's just going to be a lot of emotions to ride right our way.

Speaker 3: 28:24

So there's really so much I want to say, but something that keeps coming through is you know we discussed or you, you asked the question of how to get back to your femininity, when this life and the situations that we find ourselves in going through divorce or being single mothers puts us so much in our masculine and it got me thinking of how I do that and self-care comes to mind. But I think really, underneath it all is I ask myself this question all the time. Why am I bitter and I realized recently that that was one of the most transformative decisions of my womanhood was to decide I'm no longer going to be bitter. And one way to get out of my bitterness about life and the life challenges is to find create ceremony around my grief and around the cyclical nature of being a woman which is going through the death and the rebirth process over and over again. And when you look at our bodies, I mean we're doing it every single month?

Speaker 3: 29:33

yeah, right, and so also, yeah, I've. I've just found that creating ceremony around these cycles and these processes in life, these challenges, has brought the beauty and it's taken me far from bitterness and it's allowed me to I don't know almost like find the death as this exciting journey where I'm like going into the darkness. But I got this inner light. So I'm like in this dark cave, this under earth dark cave, and it's cold and it's scary, there's unknown, there's creatures, but with this inner light I can like walk through it and go deeper and deeper and I know that, like in the descent of myself and in my death and what I'm transmuting, that there are like really beautiful treasures in the depth of that. Yeah, and it requires my aloneness, it requires my inner power and that ceremony, going through your descent into yourself, to capture those jewels that only exist in the darkness alone, to then grab. You learn so much in that grief, in that place, and you grab them. Do you find that that's what illuminates them? The darkness?

Speaker 2: 30:50

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 30:50

Through that refiner's fur, that struggle sometimes, that darkness, that felt unsettling, then you find that treasure and you go, okay, wow, that was scary, I didn't know where we were going to go, but look at what I found, yeah, and then it's such a growing and strengthening part of you that grows your resilience.

Speaker 3: 31:10

It grows, grows, just grows you immensely, yeah, and then also connects you, I think, ultimately to not just your gifts and talents, but your strength based essence, like what makes us powerful as women, what makes us powerful as individuals, what makes us powerful as ourselves, and that that moving forward and this is a huge place, I think, for women to get that leave relationships and then traverse the world and eventually find other relationships. Because, again, I think we're being required for connection. It's not if, if we need connections, we do need them. So even if we don't get in a relationship, I do think we need community and people and connections and good friends. But through that we're able to say then I know me and when I get into something that I want it, I don't need it, I want it, yeah I'm in a relationship right now where there isn't anything that I need monetarily from my relationship and it's so bringing power.

Speaker 3: 32:03

I think is I just want it. We want each other don't need. I want to share our life together and that feels. Feels so good that and it feels on a way, so much safer because I feel like I could leave it if I needed to. It's none of my choice to stay as someone so powerful choose it every day yeah, it's awesome, we're choosing each other every day.

Speaker 3: 32:28

Yeah, that's how he was about too. He could, he could leave it. I remember one time he told me he's like you're like a broken stem. And then I'm here and I was like hold on a sec. No one can break you. We're the wild. You know him.

Speaker 3: 32:42

I was like you're a wild stallion, regardless. He's like. I said let me just tell you. I said you're that stallion that doesn't have to have a bridle or a halter. It's like the black stallion that lets you ride it. Because it lets you. It's never going to be tame. He was like I really don't like that one. I was like you're no stallion caught in a pen, dude.

Speaker 3: 33:01

I was like you choose this every day and you can unchoose it. I said I know you have choices. I said and so it speaks to your nature, you choose this every day because you're still wild and you want this. So I recognize that you've done more things than half. There's so many other good topics I know. That's why I'm in this conversation. Keep doing this. Oh, my goodness. Thank you so much for being vulnerable. Thank you so much for being vulnerable. Thank you so much for sharing for us. We want to be a voice that when people listen to this they go that that helped me, or wow, that was insightful, or wow that resonated with me, that spoke to me. It's just beautiful to see your guys's personalities and how they just show up in your willingness to. You could just see the emotion in your essence, in your eyes.

Speaker 3: 33:45

It's so authentic and I appreciate that and I want to say you're both in business, you have things that you're doing, your initiatives, and if you want people to contact you, how like, how could they contact you, whether it's to reach out for support or to your therapy or retreat? Sign house from you like you're business women. You're you're business women, you're doing your thing. Like, how can people get in?

Speaker 4: 34:09

touch with you, jen. I'm probably just on Instagram it's like the best way to find me, so it's just Danielle D-A-N-I-E-L-L-E-M and then Mira M-I-A-R-A Cool.

Speaker 3: 34:21

Cool. Well, tandy, for sure, yeah, and I'm definitely in the construction phase of things, but I'd love to foster new connections where that resonates. So I think Instagram is a great way to Vive Rose. So, v-i-v-e dot, r-o-s-e, and, yeah, I hope to soon start my work in the integrated wellness scene, bringing in the physical health, the emotional, the creative and the spiritual. Nice, yeah, aka powerful women, yeah, stay tuned, absolutely, absolutely, yeah, thank you for inviting me.

Speaker 2: 35:01

Thank you for joining us on unscripted. I'm jenny pool and I'm janine barandi. We hope you found today's discussion as inspiring and insightful as we did. If you have any questions, comments or stories you'd like to share, we'd love to hear from you. Connect with me on Instagram at the Acupuncturist and you'll find me on social media at MEND Counseling Center.

Speaker 1: 35:22

Until next time, remember that the best gift you can give to those you love is the gift of your own good health.